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Forum:New Powers Page
Well, this is my version of the powers page that would fit in the upcoming new skin, by virtue of being designed for a thinner content area. Changes you'll notice: *Thinner. Squash your browser to the size of the new content area on the current Powers page and you'll see why this is necessary. *Cleaner. Having smaller icons and the way it handles bonus powers makes for a cleaner article. *Shepard/Squadmate separation. **This was done because apart from a list of class powers there was no information on what powers each squadmate gets, to show this I created the squadmates section to show what powers they have, I then moved the list of their class powers to this section. It made sense then to sort the article by Shepard/Squadmates and then have sub-sections for each kind of power those characters can get. *More information. **How and why bonus powers are unlocked is now explained on this page. **What the differences are between each class's class power is now briefly explained here. **What powers each squadmate has is now there for quick reference, not just the player class. *Upgrades are gone. While this was removed just so it wasn't taking up space in my edit window, I actually would like to remove it as I really don't like how this wiki has handled upgrades. That's another issue though (in short, there should be an article that effectively recreates the research terminal). Things I'd still like to do: *Minimise text as much as possible, while still keeping the explanations in some form. Basically I think that this version will work considerably better than the current version with the new skin and I also think it's more useful generally speaking. Thoughts? JakePT 09:42, October 5, 2010 (UTC) Voting VOTING HAS CLOSED AND THE PROPOSAL PASSES 3-1-1 For # Duh. JakePT 08:34, May 7, 2011 (UTC) # Support. Cleaner page overall. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 11:43, May 7, 2011 (UTC) # Support. -- Commdor (Talk) 16:07, May 7, 2011 (UTC) Neutral #Though I liked the 'slimmer' version, I feel some minor sections could still be consistent or merged. I'll probably elaborate after collecting my thoughts on that matter. — Teugene (Talk) 04:13, May 9, 2011 (UTC) Against #See my comments below. Lancer1289 17:22, May 7, 2011 (UTC) Comments Sooooooo? JakePT 07:25, October 7, 2010 (UTC) :Looks good at first glance. Adds a lot more information to the Powers article, which is a good thing IMO. Your proposed solution to the loss of the Upgrades section sounds good to me too. Having an article about things that can be researched that is not also a guide (Research currently redirects to Upgrade Guide) would be incredibly useful. -- Dammej (talk) 07:47, October 7, 2010 (UTC) ::I on the other hand really don't like the Upgrades section got chopped out and I really think that needs to go back in. We have all the armor upgrades listed on the Armor page, and I don't see any reason for those to get removed either. The pictures that we use are nice for them. Also I can't see the justification for the upgrades for Powers getting removed since they are very relevant on that page. If that goes back in, then you have my support, but until then, no. Everything else looks good. Lancer1289 13:18, October 7, 2010 (UTC) :::My only problem is that the upgrades are kind of out of context and aren't quite relevant to powers, since they're not really affecting powers, but the characters that use them. If that makes sense. I'm not opposed to listing upgrades here, but I do think there should be a better Research page. Perhaps an abridged list of Powers-related Upgrades could be listed here, accompanied by a Main Article link directed to a more comprehensive article on Upgrades and Research Projects. Basically I want a simpler approach to Upgrades, as they're a very simple concept but we have the detailed info on the upgrades spread out over several pages (Armor, Powers, Upgrade Guide), and the Upgrade Guide has the same info twice, but ordered differently (perhaps a sortable table is in order), not to mention it has the information on Credits for some reason. :::So basically I have no objection to Powers-related upgrades being listed here (I only removed them completely so I could more easily focus on the other sections while editing), but I don't think they should be too detailed and should link to an article with more information and better context, such as what they are, how they're used and the mechanics behind them, as opposed to a 'Guide', which is a different thing altogether, in my opinion. :::That's all besides the point of this article though. I'll work on adding what I think is an appropriate upgrades section to give us a jumping off point for how to handle the upgrades on the Powers page.JakePT 13:56, October 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::That really didn't make much sense, but I get what you are trying to say, I think. However since this will replace what is on the Powers page, it needs to replace everything. A page for research would be a project for another time and it could probably be easier to find everything. However until that page is created, I prefer not "rocking the boat" so to speak. If this is going to replace the Powers article, then it needs to replace everything. We can do a new project for a better research page once things settle down a little from the skin change, or start one no, I have coem free time, so maybe I'll work on it later. A central page for the research projects would be a good idea as it would cut down on article length in every place. However again that is a different project that needs some work. But again I have to say that if we are going to replace the Powers article with this, then we do need to replace everything, including the upgrades, or people may not understand why valid content was removed. I hope that made sense as I seem to have a problem with that lately. Lancer1289 14:59, October 7, 2010 (UTC) :::::Yes, Jake, what you said makes sense. It would be good to put a briefer version of the Powers Upgrades section back in. The long descriptions of those upgrades is needless in the article (e.g. Jack's neural degeneration is entirely irrelevant); whereas they would be interesting in and suitable to a true Upgrades/Research article. Your proposal so far is both easier to follow, and much more useful (more information is in it). Thanks very much. -*-AnotherRho 21:21, October 7, 2010 (UTC) -- EDIT: Perhaps the section "Starting Powers" could be better named something like "Native Powers", since some of them aren't available from the start, but they're native to the class? --AnotherRho 21:26, October 7, 2010 (UTC), again ::::::Good point. Perhaps "Class Powers"?JakePT 06:06, October 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Class Powers is what is called on the Class Guides so that would probably be a good idea. Lancer1289 12:25, October 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Also I should be able to get that research page up in my sandbox later today. Lancer1289 12:27, October 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Wait, Class Powers are called Class Powers already... silly me.JakePT 21:02, October 8, 2010 (UTC) "Base powers" seems good (you may wish to change "starting powers" in some of the summaries/introductories, for consistency). Overall, lookin' good. --AnotherRho 08:50, October 13, 2010 (UTC) So, what's the status on an Upgrades page? Should I be adding some info to my page or what? Everyone who comes here is getting the new skin I think, so moving over to this page soon, if it passes a vote, would be a good idea.JakePT 07:19, October 21, 2010 (UTC) :Actually it's research, and um...I kind of forgot about it. I should have something by tomorrow. Brain fart and homework overload, I blame them. School comes first. Lancer1289 12:52, October 21, 2010 (UTC) Um, totally forgot about this. Now that we have the appropriate upgrades page, mentioned above, we've got all bases covered.JakePT 08:34, May 7, 2011 (UTC) :Yeah I'm voting against and will continue to do so until several concerns are addressed, and if they aren't then I will bring them up again. :#The upgrades section is not formatted correctly. With the introduction of the research page, all articles with upgrades were formatted to a standard, and right now it doesn't match. :#I hate the new "tables". It is just way to bland when put next to the current one, and it looks much more sloppy when put next to it. :#Consistency. There would now be inconsistency with the Talents page which is also formatted like the Powers page is now. I cannot and will not vote for a modification of that page to match the "new" Powers page and will oppose modification of that page and the powers page to incorporate sloppier "tables". :#I do not like how the "Bonus Powers" section is formatted. Actually I don't even remotely like that section what so ever. I don't believe we need that kind of information in the Powers page and honestly some of that information is better covered in the individual pages themselves. :#I also don't like the new "Squadmates" section as that is also just a needless repeat of information that is already covered on the individual pages. It is inconsistent with the Talents page and I feel that it is inappropriate to have all of that information on a general overview page. :#I also don't like the new formatting "Class Powers" section. Information like that is another needless repeat of information that is inconsistent with the Talents page and better covered in the individual pages themselves. It is also inconsistent with the rest of the page which doesn't describe the effects of the powers. Either make it consistent all around, eliminate the needless descriptions, or put it back to the current formatting. :#The "new tables" are just completely sloppy. The current systems uses a grid system which is quite easy to follow while the “new” system uses sloppier “tables” with just a line to separate things. That doesn’t work if you are trying to follow something which is why the current system is used. The entire “new tables” thing needs to be eliminated and either restored to the current gird system, or redone because as it sits, it is sloppy and much harder to follow than the current system. :#Finally, I don’t like how the voting process started. When things like this are normally forgotten about, the first thing that usually is done is to ask for further comments as there might have been things that weren’t addressed before as one issue was focused on. Which is exactly what happened. Nothing else about the page except for the upgrades section was discussed and because of that I hate the fact voting had been opened before anything else has even been touched upon. :So there are a lot of concerns/protests about this “new” page and if they aren’t addressed, then I will bring them up again after it is implemented as these should have been addressed before voting started and you can see my last point for that one. Lancer1289 17:45, May 7, 2011 (UTC) :So that would be a no on addressing anything I have above? Lancer1289 17:01, May 8, 2011 (UTC) ::Patience dude, come on, Wikia was down yesterday when I was free to check up on it (at least it was for me). ::1. Easy fix, although I'd argue that since we have the Research page, only an abbreviated version is necessary.JakePT 02:58, May 9, 2011 (UTC) ::2. You and I have very very different definitions of the word sloppy my friend. In fact, I doubt that you and I will ever agree on anything aesthetic. ::3. First up, Powers are inconsistent with Talents, and second, that page can be changed if this one passes. There'll be a few days with some inconsistency, but consistency is hardly this wiki's strong suit currently anyway. ::4-6. You're arguing that information on Powers doesn't go on the Powers page. I cannot emphasise how ridiculous I find this. Information on how to get Bonus powers shouldn't be on the Powers page? What!? ::7. You're repeating yourself. ::8. The only thing that was discussed was the upgrades section was because you said "If that goes back in, then you have my support, but until then, no. Everything else looks good." ::So yeah, no on everything except 1. JakePT 02:58, May 9, 2011 (UTC) :::I will completely, and utterly, oppose the changing of the Talents page to match this completely ridiculous system. This isn't neater, it's sloppier and much harder to follow than the current system. It isn't just also less aesthetically pleasing, but again it makes following the page and the information it contains much harder to read and follow, especially in the Base Powers section. How you can't see how that section is less precise than the current one I will never know. Unlike the current grid system which makes things easy to follow as one scrolls down the page. The "new" format, doesn’t even remotely do that. :::Point 1: It needs to match the current page which is already standard on every other page with the section. :::Clarification on point 4: they were already incorporated into the main section and I don't think that needs an entirely separate section in its own right. The current system is just fine and does the same job without a completely separate section. :::Clarification on point 5: Putting that kind of information there is a needless repeat of information on a general overview page. If we were to put in that new section, then I would argue that it needs the "old" grid system as the new one makes everything blend together when compared to the old system. Your "new" system isn't clean, isn't streamlined, and frankly is sloppier, less precise, less athletically pleasing, and more choppy than the current system where everything is aligned and organized precisely. The "new" system doesn't even remotely come close to organizing the information the same way and doesn't do a good job of preventing people who are scrolling through the page from getting lost. :::Clarification on point 6: That section either needs a serious reformatting or it needs to be chopped down. :::Clarification on point 8: I never stated that I still didn't have issues, however the upgrades section was the only thing focused on. If you would look at every other project page, there is always a comment by someone asking for additional comments. While I admit this escaped my memory as well, I hate the fact voting was opened before asking for additional input on anything. The upgrade section was a major point for me, but in the time that this initially went up, I took a few more looks at it and started documenting more problems I had with it that I didn't notice initially. :::Overall this page is something that I cannot and will not support without serious modification and cleaning up of major formatting issues. If this does get implemented then I will pursue to get it changed back to the original, easier to follow, and more precise grid system, which works about 100 times better than the proposed system which is less precise, allows information to blend together, and is overall sloppier. I will also oppose a change in the Talents page as first that would require a completely separate proposal, and this project, while some parts are good, needs some serious work before implementation or I will press for modification after it for the reasons I have stated above. Lancer1289 03:18, May 9, 2011 (UTC)